John Carter Sequel Fan Group Tops 10,000 Members
Press Release — The John Carter Sequel Facebook Group (who goes by the lengthy official name: “Take Me Back to Barsoom! I want a John Carter Sequel!) announced on Tuesday that it’s membership had topped 10,000, as new members from the UK and other international locations joined the group on July 2, the DVD/Blu-ray release date in a number of international locations. The group has been active since the early days after the release of the film in the United States, and aside from its Facebook presence operates an open-to-all internet forum at www.JohnCarterTwo.com and a website at www.BacktoBarsoom.com.
“I think reaching 10,000 members on the group means that we have not only been successful at getting the word out about our Back To Barsoom Campaign and wanting a John Carter Sequel, but also that if there are 10,000 members who love and are so passionate about this film to have searched for a sequel and found our group, it makes me wonder just how many more thousands and thousands of fans there might be out there who also feel the same way,” said Jan Austin, one of the leaders of the group.
According to Austin the group’s goal is to demonstrate, first to Disney and then to other studios (if Disney allows the rights to lapse) that the Andrew Stanton film, which is based on a 100 year old classic tale written by Edgar Rice Burroughs, is garnering a “passionate and motivated fan base who are willing to invest time and energy in making sure that the film continues to find new fans worldwide. We want to do for this franchise what the fans did for Star Trek in the seventies and eighties, and Serenity more recently.” The Serenity Facebook group, which played a significant role in getting a movie made after the TV series was canceled, eventually reached 55,000 members. “We believe we can top that,” Austin said.
The group plans to have a booth at the upcoming ComicCon convention in San Diego, where they will mounting a campaign to attract new members from the more than 100,000 attendees. Upcoming activiites of the group include the creation of fan art (more than two hundred pieces have been created by group members to date), and there are tentative plans for a convention in Los Angeles next year to coincide with the screening of John Carter at the LA Times Hero Complex Film Festival in May. Members also engage in various social media activity across the internet promoting the film and the novels of Edgar Rice Burroughs on which it is based.
“It will be a long journey, we know that. But this unique film deserved better than it got, and we’re not giving up,” said Austin.
Visit the group on Facebook at https://facebook.com/groups/backtobarsoom
The only real problem with JC is that it tries too much to be a “Raiders of the Lost Ark ” and move quickly through all the material. This might have worked in Raiders case but with JC there is much more of an in depth story to tell and as Dotar has pointed out the audience cant keep up. This results in little subtle points of the plot not being recognized or being overlooked, detracting from the overall appreciation of the movie. This can only be rectified on a second viewing where these nuances become apparent. …….. So go buy the DVD/Blu-ray !
I don’t think so. There are two components to it, though — or at least there were two components for me. First, there was the novel/movie in my mind that had been there since ca 1970, colliding with Stanton’s movie which is different. That made it hard for me to assimilate what he was doing on its own terms — at every step of the way there was a “compare and contrast” thing going on that is very different than being “swept along” as you normally would be by a movie about which you had no preconceptions. Eventually I was able to lay this aside and experience the movie without constantly referencing my own inner “Barsoom file”. It got better as I did this.
Secondly, there is something peculiar about the way Stanton made this movie. Rather than amplify the key moments in the story, he has kind of hidden them. Repeatedly there are character moments that you don’t absorb because something interrupts and the story moves on to something else. I’m going to compile a list of these but there are at least 5 or 6 and maybe more. Here’s one example — Dejah says “you made a difference today, Virginia” — a moment laden with subtext that, if allowed to breath even for a few seconds, would have caused everyone watching to see a “moment” in the relationship that would launch it. But Stanton has her say “Virginia” and so Carter says “No, my name is John Carter, I’m from Virginia” — and the moment gets lost on a first viewing. On subsequent viewings, it sinks in.
Anyway …. it really does start working better if you give it a chance. Truly.
As for your comments about entertaining diverse opinions …. I agree. That’s why I fight pretty hard to make a space for contrarians and real debate. The problem is just getting people to carry on the debate in a half-way civilized fashion. There just seems to be an irresistible temptation to some people when they see a hornets’ nest, they just have to poke it. And they then play the victim when stung. I think we’re making some progress, though. I hope that’s the case.
Click this link. Read a martian tale. Post a post saying that it is godawful
I went to Walmart and the “10 dollars off next movie you purchase sticker” that was
attached to the JC combo pack motivated me enough to purchase it.
As soon as the movie started I thought it was odd that the half chest armor of
the zodangans covered their left breast. I assume that zodandans are
predominately right handed and their hearts are on the right side of
their chests. If your sword is in your right hand you lead with the
right side of your body, not your left.
As the sword of his enemy peirced his heart the zodangan thought
to himself, “If only my half chest armor covered the right side of
A minor quibble I suppose.
Halfway thru the movie I was admiring the awesome crispness detail that my new
blu ray player provided more then the actual movie itself.
When the movie ended I speculated that their was a 1% chance that a
second Stanton/Disney JC movie will be made. – Never say Never.
Perhaps 15 or 20 years from now if their is a massive decrease in the cost
of producing digital effects their might be a reboot by someone else
I have read a lot of comments from posters who have watched the movie
numerous times about how the movie gets better with subsequent viewings.
I get the impressions that people are manufacturing extra layers of depth,
meaning and emotions in their own minds based on the books,
not on what Stanton’s movie presents.
If Stanton’s movie actually conveyed all that richness on it’s own more
of the populace would have responded.
Kudos to Dotar Sojat for allowing contrarian opinions.
I speculate that even the most hardcore Stanton lovers will grow weary
and then eventually move on with their lives. They will check out or post their opinions
on sites like this less and less often.
I believe that debate will be the continuing lifeblood of sites like this not a lovefest.
A “Stanton lovers” only website that excudes ERB lovers that were dissatisfied
with Stanton’s vision only cuts down on future potential posters.
I predict that as long as divergent opinions are allowed this website will thrive
long after the “Stanton lover’s only” sites have withered.
“The second comment is to Amster. I won’t respond to all you wrote, since it’s the same spiel you write on IMDB all the time. “
Probably a wise decision on your part.
“But first Hydralis didn’t seem to take anything personal. In fact he wrote ‘Thank you both for the explanations.’”
Oh, well I guess that it makes it okay then.
Hydralis: “Basically, it sounds like what this comes down to is, the Therns aren’t very smart and certainly aren’t all-knowing hyper-aware beings. They probably went to Thern School where, despite everyone having a chance to do something as magnificent as decide the fate of a solar system’s inhabitants, not everyone is a genius. Technology, along with their role in the universe, has made them extremely arrogant. ”
Yes, it’s amazing that someone who has never even read ERB understood the film better than you did.
“This was the person I mentioned was going to read the books and in my own defense we both had a pretty civil exchange. May not pass Miss Manners but there is no name calling.”
Oh, please, stop trying to pretend like you’re a saint. Did you not call me a “Stantonite” on April 14th? And when I explained to you that I had never even seen a Stanton film prior to John Carter (which STILL stands, btw), you wouldn’t just let it go and basically called me a LIAR, didn’t you? I believe our exchange went a little like this:
MCR: “Actually a better question to be asked is how much of a Stantonite are you?”
Amster: “John Carter is the first Stanton film I’ve seen, so the answer would be none.”
MCR: “Just admit your a Stanton fan and we’ll end this right now and save us any further aggravation.”
Amster: “Yes, I admit that after seeing the film, I’m a genuine fan of Andrew Stanton, and thought he did a brilliant job with it. But as I said ealier, I never seen Stanton’s previous films. Why? Because I generally don’t watch children’s movies. I wasn’t into childrens’ movies or books even when I was a child. And you know what, I’m still not going to watch Finding Nemo, because I have no interest in watching a movie about a friggin’ goldfish.”
MCR: “See was that so hard? Now that you’ve admitted that we can stop talking since Andrew Stanton is nothing more to me than an overrated kiddie cartoon director who butchered this film with tired cliches and a lack of respect for the source material. Maybe next time you’ll be more honest and most of this can be avoided.”
Do you understand how that could piss someone off, if someone is telling you something clearly and unambiguously and you just pretend that they said the exact opposite to you, your head firmly in the sand like the proverbial ostrich?
…then you accused me of not having read the books, even though I consistently demonstrated a greater knowledge than you did. I think it’s important that people see these remarks so that they’ll know exactly what kind of mind their dealing with, someone who’s so mind-numbingly obtuse that pesky little things like facts or even basic appeals for civility have no effect on. Just last week you accused me of not ever having seen The Avengers. Newsflash: if someone remarks about a film, and then you go and accuse them of not having seen the film they’re talking about, then YOU ARE CALLING THEM A LIAR. Yeah, it’s the same spiel alright. You’re constantly leveling accusations at people and putting them on the defensive. And even when people explain themselves to you in the most level and civil tone that they can muster, you just ignore them and repeat the same old crap. So it’s really no surprise that you won’t respond to my points, because such a response would require some-self reflection on your part and an acknowledgement of the existence of other viewpoints than your own, and we can’t have that, now can we?
And after you’ve successfully pissed everyone off and put them on the defensive, you’ll pretend to take the high road and play the victim, just so that you can start the same pattern all over again…
MCR this is one of the fundamental areas where I’m trying to get through to you. It is not the simple fact that someone has a differing opinion that creates the problem — it is how that opinion is stated. Is it a simple matter of politeness and manners? In other words, Jeff is not — in my experience — intolerant of differing opinions, but it sets him off (and others) when opinions are stated in ways that insult anyone who doesn’t’ hold the same opinion. I just don’t know how many other ways to formulate the thought and get it across to you — be respectful. I think what Jeff wants is not everyone to agree, as that’s boring. But what he wants — and certainly what I want — is for people to present their ideas with a reasonable degree of mutual respect. A person is not an idiot or a bad person for holding a view different from your own, and if you state your opinion in such a way as to suggest or imply that that is the case, then you are going to get pushback.
Cool, and thank you. I didn’t think you really meant to say that anyone who likes the movie is disqualified from being a true ERB fan. Glad we cleared that up. As for the criticism of ERB — one goal I’ve set for myself, in part with JC GofH and elsewhere, is to try and address that in a comprehensive way. You read my description from the book about ERB’s handling of the death/rebirth component to Carter’s arrival on Mars, a description which is completely at odds with all those who say it’s a perfunctory treatment that just yanks Carter from Earth and dumps him on Mars. I argued in that piece that it was very carefully crafted, with a spiritual dimension and a death/rebirth motif, etc, etc. That is “defending” ERB, isn’t it? More to come on that score.
Just couldn’t resist the parting shot, couldja? Oh well. There are a number of communities that intersect. The one I’m responsible for is JCF and in that one what you say is untrue. There are plenty of people here with individual thoughts, and there are no “rules”, as my repeated unwillingness to censor or ban people has shown. Peace! indeed.
I’ll make two comments here and then you can just go from there. First to Dotar on suggestions on what to do with “contrarian” comments. The only thing I can think of is using comment approval. If someone writes something you feel is going to be seen as inflammatory or will cause a ruckus as this did then write to that person and tell them that you can’t post it. If they want to rewrite it to make it less flame baiting then OK and then you can post it. I know that can be a lot of work but it may make everyone happy and avoid anymore of this.
The second comment is to Amster. I won’t respond to all you wrote, since it’s the same spiel you write on IMDB all the time. But first Hydralis didn’t seem to take anything personal. In fact he wrote “Thank you both for the explanations… Basically, it sounds like what this comes down to is, the Therns aren’t very smart and certainly aren’t all-knowing hyper-aware beings. They probably went to Thern School where, despite everyone having a chance to do something as magnificent as decide the fate of a solar system’s inhabitants, not everyone is a genius. Technology, along with their role in the universe, has made them extremely arrogant. ” in one response and another admitted surprise about how much the movie differed from the book. He didn’t take it as personal as you did.
And the second person I was talking about wasn’t you. It was the OP on this thread http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401729/board/thread/201087104. This was the person I mentioned was going to read the books and in my own defense we both had a pretty civil exchange. May not pass Miss Manners but there is no name calling.
I think that’s the real dilemma I face here and I’m having a little trouble figuring out how to calibrate this. There is a place for lively discussion and I think of JCF as a place where the underpinnings of the site are the ERB classics themselves. I would never have been motivated to undertake something like this were it not for my love for the books and the very personal connection I feel for ERB, who is sort of my spiritual grandfather and the guy at the top of my list of people I’d give anything to sit down and have dinner with. I viewed the movie as a once in a lifetime moment when my love for ERB would suddenly be “out there” in a broad way that would be shared with millions, and I wanted to help that process along. I didn’t expect the movie to be a slavish adaptation — no film-maker of the stature required to take on a huge project like this is going to be satisfied just doing paint-by-numbers with the book. The top directors are ALWAYS going to see the story in a personal way and make changes, and I was prepared for that. Stanton made a lot of changes some of which I embraced, some of which I wished he’d handled in another way — but overall I felt like he gave us a huge gift by originating the acquisition of the property by Disney (remember — Stanton reached out to Dick Cook and planted the idea of Disney acquiring the rights for Stanton to direct, and without that call there would be no movie to debate), and by keeping it as true to the original as he did (which is truer than most of the 7 or 8 screenplays from other studio developmental efforts that I have read).
I kept faith with Disney as long as I could, until their continued butchering of the promotion and eventual throwing of the movie under the proverbial bus (the bizarre $200M write-off statement 10 days into the theatrical run) left me with no way to continue being supportive of them. And when that happened, I think there was a gradual transformation of JCF from a fan site into a forum where we tried to piece together what went wrong. I wrote a series of articles on the “What Really Happened” theme and that in turn really opened the floodgates for all sorts of opinions, including those from people like MCR who, while they acknowledge that Disney did the film no favors with its promotion, really want to pin blame on Stanton for his adaptation.
Now … here we are. I am concerned that MCR’s hostility will drive away readers like yourself — yet I’m equally concerned that banning any of the contrarians will turn this into a homogenized “white bread” environment where views contrary to those of the majority are just not tolerated. I don’t like that — yet I don’t want to lose the majority who might just feel like “I’m tired of reading all these hostile comments”.
How to strike the right balance?
Up until now, I’ve never banned anyone or blocked their comments. MCR has been the target of people wanting to see him disappear, but there are other contrarians out there too. The difference is, the other ones seem to know how to “play nice” …. and voice their opinions in ways that for the most part (not always) stay within the bounds of showing reasonable respect for opposing points of view. MCR, for his part, seems to go to the brink every now and then, then pull back and be reasonable for awhile — then suddenly will do something over the top that provokes a response, at which point he becomes (in his mind at least) the victim of “attacks” which are in fact “counter-attacks”, instigated by his own flame-bait posts.
Anyway, once again, for the umpteenth time, the challenge arises: Where do I draw the line?
My appeal to MCR, which I have made numerous times, is to just think twice before posting and read what he’s written, and think about how it will feel when read by others who don’t share his view. Is that asking too much? I don’t’ think so.
Anyway …. this rant of mine doesn’t lead to a conclusion, only to an acknowledgment that it’s a tough call. I welcome other comments from other readers who have thoughts about the role of the contrary voices here on JCF.
MCR, you truly don’t see yourself as being combative and insulting in your posts? And I mean your initial posts, not replies to defend your point of view or yourself in name-calling attacks.
I admire your devotion to ERB. While I was being a bit sarcastic in labeling you a “better” fan than me, I am also being a bit honest too.
I probably don’t have same level of affection and attachment for the material you have – and I think rather highly of Mr. Burroughs. I don’t have him on a pedestal, but then again there are few people out there, much less authors, that I elevate that way ( I think ERB was pretty self-deprecating about his skills as a writer, although I think he sold himself far too short ).
That said though, it bugs the hell out of me to be told I must not care about ERB if I like Stanton’s movie and I take it personally. You may mean all of the “rabid” fans who only care about the movie, but I’m a member of the FB group and have done a few bits here and there to try and get attention for the cause to get a sequel made. I’m not nearly as devoted as a lot of them on there, but I do what I can when I can. So again: I took it personally.
I think ERB has had a long history of having his work get screwed over by Hollywood. Often it just wasn’t possible to achieve the scope of his vision. It is my opinion that Stanton has come the closest to capture the feeling of an ERB tale – much more so than “Greystoke” did. That doesn’t make me right and you wrong, it just is what it is – my opinion.
What I would ask (and what I think Dotar has been requesting) is that you be more measured in your initial comments. Personally, I like to hear a dissenting opinion – it can give me a perspective I may not have seen. Defend your name, character and honor, truly. But to just jump in and start insulting all the time gets old fast. Yeah, I realize that there will be people that jump all over you for daring to disagree with them – welcome to the internet. I find those types are the easiest to ignore. Maybe when you write something, turn it around on yourself and ask, “If someone were writing this about ERB, would I be insulted?”
Maybe that’s not your style, and maybe you just like a battle. Just don’t act surprised when it gets ugly, I guess.
‘You need to go away. Nobody cares about your ‘other point of vew’. Your other point of view is being a predictable and relentless stench in our community. Take up a cause, write a book, but leave us alone”
And what is your community Jeff? A bunch of people who only agree with you and don’t have a different opinion. Their not welcome are they? Yeah that shows what I was talking about-this “community” who can’t stand for people to have a differing point of view. Who can’t stand that someone doesnt’ believe all the bull that a man tells them. As for you-why don’t you take up a cause, write a book and stop putting blind faith in a director who feeds you a bunch of manure.
As for Ralok, you need to read a little better. I wrote “Most of them don’t. See Ranting Ralok for an example of that. Calling people “liars” or “trolls” or telling them to get lost or that their opinion doesn’t matter or count, that’s what I’ve seen with the fans of this movie-not the fans of ERB who from my experience are for the most part agreeable even when they don’t agree.” Where did I say that you Ralok called me or anyone else a “troll?” I included you with the group that says this since like Jeff you want your perfect community of Stanton worshippers and nobody with a dissenting comment in there.
I’ll stop there and respond to Dotar.
“It’s this line that got people’s backs up, and rightly so:
When has the fans of this movie ever had any interest in ERB’s novels? If they did they wouldn’t be touting it as being “based” on his books.
Don’t you understand — truly — how demeaning and insulting it is for you to say that everyone who considers themselves to be a fan of the movie can’t be a true fan of the books? ”
I understand that and rereading it I can see this. But as I said before it just seems to me they’re more concerned with this movie and not ERB. They don’t seem to understand-or want to consider-that this movie has probably done more damage to ERB’s reputation. Consider this: Is Hollywood or any director going to make another ERB-inspired film again? I know there is two Tarzan films in the works but what about Pirates of Venus or At the Earth’s Core or any of Burroughs’ work? No because all any studio has to do is look at John Carter and decide there is no audience for his work on film. Also as I mentioned people who haven’t read the books are basing their ideas of what’s in the books on this movie-that John Carter is a moping widower, just like so many base their conception of Tarzan on Weissmuller or Disney. And to a fan it’s a shame that ERB’s John Carter is being buried under this, I guess you could call it misconception about the character all because they saw this movie.
“I mean — think about it. You grow up loving ERB, you read all the books, a movie comes out, and you love the movie. It takes you to Barsoom, you see Woola and Tars and Helium and Dejah and all the things that have been magically dancing in your head your whole life, and you love it. It’s a little different, but hell, Hollywood since day one has always changed novels, but it’s close enough to make you super happy and you become a fan of the movie and the books and you fight for a sequel and it’s all good…..
And then you read this cranky guy saying — on a post that celebrates your fan group reaching 10k peeps — you’re not a true fan of Burroughs. You can’t be a true fan of Burroughs and still like the movie.”
I understand this but consider it from my point of view-the one that no one cares about according to Jeff. I’m a fan of ERB, have read all-or almost all-of his books. Have dreamed about a John Carter of Mars movie ever since I was 13 and finally it gets made. And it’s a disappointment. It doesnt’ deliver. It’s not the Barsoom you saw in the books, it’s not the John Carter, Dejah, Tars Tarkas you wanted to see but some character with just his or her name. You’re not happy with it, nor with the director who keeps claiming he’s a fan. And all you see are people believing him, blindly in some cases. I know that my comments can be inflammatory but I get the feeling they could be the opposite and I still would be treated the same. That some of these people don’t want to hear it, don’t want to consider that there are ERB fans-true or not-that didn’t like this movie, were disappointed with it. That’s the view point they don’t want to hear.
Now I apologize for my earlier statement. I should have thought more about it. And no I don’t think someone isn’t a true fan of ERB if they like this movie. I do feel some “true fans” of this movie though need to lighten up and realize that not everyone likes this film. If there is one thing an ERB fan can tell you is how much they’ve seen their favorite author disparaged and put down by critics and those who hold his work in low regard. You can attack them, call them names but what good does it do? Is it going to change their minds? No.
And yeah just keep up the comments I made. Heck I love being outside the community. Too many rules and people with no individual thoughts. Peace!
I follow the John Carter Files because I liked the books when I read them and I loved the movie when I saw it — no contradiction in doing both. I support the effort of putting a John Carter sequel on the big screen in the not too distant future. But I don’t think anyone will continue visiting a forum where certain individuals, pushing a contrary opinion, overpower all the positive effort for the cause. I’d like to see this forum continue in a positive tone with the goal of getting back to Barsoom with the Stanton/Kitsch/Collins team. Let’s stay on target.
“But do these people love ERB’s work? As you said not all of them care and so far I’ve never heard any body claim to love the books, just that they’ve read them.”
Vintage MCR, always moving the goal post, aren’t you? Less than 24 hours ago you said “Really? When has the fans of this movie ever had any interest in ERB’s novels?” When it was pointed out to you that tons of members on the Take Me Back to Barsoom Facebook page are big ERB fans as well, your reply was “Did I say they can’t enjoy both? No I didn’t.” Uh…excuse me, not only is that EXACTLY what you said, but it seems to be the position you’ve once again fallen back on, because from my reading you’re making the claim that it’s impossible for one to be a “true” fan of Burroughs and actually love the film as well. If that’s not the claim you’re making, perhaps you could just clarify things and explain what exactly your point really is, because it seems rather nebulous if you ask me. Now it seems that it’s not enough for someone to have read the ERB novels. Apparently they have to add the qualifier that they “love them” whenever they mention them. Well, duh! Few people are going to take the time to read ALL ELEVEN novels if they didn’t like the first one, or the second one at most.
“As for the FB group-first I hate the idea that you have to sign in to even read what they have on there. I think it was Henried or one of my fellow contrarians who talked about the annoying Facebooking of the Internet and I agree with him.”
I really don’t know what point you think you’re making with this statement, because it rather reminds me of the proverbial ostrich with his head buried in the sand. Just because you’ve never actually visited the FB page and seen these fans of both the film and the novels for yourself doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. But FB is certainly not the only place you can find them. There are literally hundreds of reviews on Amazon by ERB fans as well, not to mention I-tunes.
“As for inspiring new readers I have my doubts about that. Recently I had conversations with two people on a message board where they both admitted to never having read the books and were hoping that possibly some of the confusion they had with the movie-in particular the Therns’ immortal aspects and the medallion hooey-was explained more. I had to tell them both that none of that was in the books at all. Both were pretty nice about it and one even said he or she would read the books but they both seemed surprised about how radically different this movie was from the books.”
Actually, it was ONE person. The “other” person who jumped in was me, and I told Hydrillus that I thought he deserved an explanation that discussed the actual content of the film itself, not merely some rant from an enraged fanboy about how it was different from the book it’s based on.
Hydrillus starts off the thread by saying that he’s a big fan of the film and has already seen it several times. Being a fan of ERB, you really think your approach is the best way to attract new fans? By telling someone that the film they love and have seen multiple times is a POS, pretty much telling them that they have bad taste in movies? “And oh, btw, after I’m done insulting you, you should take my advice go read the original novels”. That’s not the way to attract new fans.
“I have never called anyone a troll or a liar here to my knowledge unless it was a slip of the tongue.”
It’s really difficult to claim to have a “slip of the tongue” when talking about the written rather than the spoken word, but yeah, I do agree that you do seem to have a lot of trouble keeping up with what you’ve said before.
“Also where’s the ERB comment control group? As pointed out there is a John Carter comment control watch, why isn’t there one to defend ERB when he gets attacked. Look at the articles on Tarzan Dotar has posted here and notice how little reaction they’ve gotten. There is some defense but not the overwhelming defense the movie gets. To me it just paints a picture of a group that doesn’t care for the author at all.”
That’s certainly one theory. Another theory is that these people for the most part ARE ERB fans, and that they’re perfectly okay with most if not all of the changes that Stanton made in adapting the book to film. The problem with arguments like this is that your logic is faulty. If ERB fans came out in droves to condemn Stanton, you would hold it up as proof that most ERB fans hated the film, but since they are, for the most part, silent, you hold it up as proof that they aren’t really ERB fans at all. So no matter what evidence you have, you’ll merely twist it to fit your pre-existing hypothesis.
“If I’m wrong-if someone can produce proof-than I’ll say I’m sorry.”
No you won’t. People like you never stop. Just a few hours ago you announced that you were going to take your toys and go home, and yet here you are, repeating the same tired old crap ad naseum. People have told you over and over that they are fans of both ERB and the Stanton film, and have pointed out the existence of other such fans to you, yet with all the zealousness of a Phundahlian you still insist that these people do not exist. What you fail to have is the ability to acknowledge or even recognize the existence of other points of view from your own. You keep saying stuff like “most of the ERB fans that I talked to”. Where are all these supposed hordes of enraged ERB fans like yourself? Where are they hiding? Where did these discussions take place? Why aren’t more of them posting negative reviews on Amazon and other sites to counteract the OVERWHELMING number of positive reviews? Why are most of the one and two star reviews apparently written by imbeciles, while most of the four and five star reviews are for the most part extremely passionate, detailed, and very articulate?
I call you a liar because you are
example, you claim that I called you a troll . . . which I never did
see . . . liar! I am going to explain this to you MCR like I explained it to my little brother, when you say something that isnt true . . . and try to claim that it is . . . that is a lie.
MCR, I’d really rather not but I will do so if you insist — but I’d like you to consider the following. There is this thing that happens with your comments sometimes, and that is you don’t realize just how over the top or insulting they are. It’s this line that got people’s backs up, and rightly so:
Don’t you understand — truly — how demeaning and insulting it is for you to say that everyone who considers themselves to be a fan of the movie can’t be a true fan of the books? I mean — think about it. You grow up loving ERB, you read all the books, a movie comes out, and you love the movie. It takes you to Barsoom, you see Woola and Tars and Helium and Dejah and all the things that have been magically dancing in your head your whole life, and you love it. It’s a little different, but hell, Hollywood since day one has always changed novels, but it’s close enough to make you super happy and you become a fan of the movie and the books and you fight for a sequel and it’s all good…..
And then you read this cranky guy saying — on a post that celebrates your fan group reaching 10k peeps — you’re not a true fan of Burroughs. You can’t be a true fan of Burroughs and still like the movie.
Now …..if you can’t see how that would make you flaming angry mad if you were that person, then there is an empathy problem.
But ….there’s more. I would defend your right to make that comment here and with one exception that I will address in a moment, I don’t think the comments have been anything more than what you should reasonably have expected. That exception is Ralok, whose passion I love, but whose judgment in how far to go I question. He should not call you a “liar” and even though I understand how he feels that way, I’m not going to let that comment stand – I’m taking it down.
Finally though, to get back to “Just delete my comment. I’m tired of trying to defend myself or present another viewpoint when all I get is being called a liar.” Look, this smacks a bit of being about dish it out, but not take it, but like I said — calling you a liar is too much. It forces me to come to your defense, which I’m doing. You’re not a liar.
But you are challenged when it comes to making a statement in a non-inflammatory way. You just can’t help yourself. That was a very, very insulting statement you made to a lot of people, myself included, who consider themselves to be true Burroughs fans and who are also fans of the movie. You can’t arrogate to yourself the position that the only true Burroughs fan is someone who hates the movie, and that’s what you did, and you deserve to be called out on that — but not be called a liar.
So I’m leaving it up and challenging you on it. There was only one over the top response and I’ve taken it down. Given how inflammatory and insulting your OP was (and I’m sure you didn’t really contemplate how inflammatory it was) the rest of the responses don’t go over the top.
And finally one last thing — I would like to ask you, sincerely, did you really mean that? Did you mean to say, with all that it implies: “When has the fans of this movie had any interest in ERB novels?” I mean….just take that statement and think what you’re saying and ask yourself, did I really mean to say that. Personalize it — you’re saying it to me. I’m a fan of the movie, and I’ve read every ERB book, I’ve written about it, you know my background. Did you mean to say that I have no interest in ERB novels? And then consider that there are a lot more like me, or who have newly discovered the novels, or who read them and remember them fondly, but who also like the movie. Did you really mean to say this?
“Really? When has the fans of this movie ever had any interest in ERB’s novels”
MCR this is JEFF. You need to go away. Nobody cares about your ‘other point of vew’. Your other point of view is being a predictable and relentless stench in our community. Take up a cause, write a book, but leave us alone.
“MCR, if you want to claim the most high exalted grand poo-bah bestest ever ERB fan in the whole wide world title, have at it. I’m sure you could trounce me at ERB-lore.”
Since I’m still waiting to be deleted. I won’t claim that title. I’ve met fans who know more about ERB than I do and have read everything he’s written. I’m not the top expert. I know Barsoom, Amtor and Tarzan pretty well and that’s where my heart and imagination lies.
“. But to state that fans of the movie don’t show any interest in ERB’s novels seems disingenuous to me because I think you know better. Sure, not all fans on that group page care about ERB. But there are plenty of people who have started reading the books and have stated so on that group page.”
But do these people love ERB’s work? As you said not all of them care and so far I’ve never heard any body claim to love the books, just that they’ve read them. There has been some exceptions-Ms. Garland and her reading program which I support a 100 percent-but not many others, the people who jump up and down when ever someone criticizes this movie or its director.
Also where’s the ERB comment control group? As pointed out there is a John Carter comment control watch, why isn’t there one to defend ERB when he gets attacked. Look at the articles on Tarzan Dotar has posted here and notice how little reaction they’ve gotten. There is some defense but not the overwhelming defense the movie gets. To me it just paints a picture of a group that doesn’t care for the author at all. If I’m wrong-if someone can produce proof-than I’ll say I’m sorry.
“You disagree and never pass up a chance to let anyone know that. I respect your opinion and I’m content to agree to disagree. You seem content to denigrate fans of the movie constantly, and then whine when they give it back to you”
Well Bob you’re one of the few who at least will agree to disagree and respects another person’s opinion. Most of them don’t. See Ranting Ralok for an example of that. Calling people “liars” or “trolls” or telling them to get lost or that their opinion doesn’t matter or count, that’s what I’ve seen with the fans of this movie-not the fans of ERB who from my experience are for the most part agreeable even when they don’t agree. I have never called anyone a troll or a liar here to my knowledge unless it was a slip of the tongue. But they have. I’m sure this will be seen as more whining, but there’s my opinion on it.
The first ERB book I read was “Son of Tarzan” – an impulse grab at the library when I was 10 years old or thereabouts. I then began to gobble up the other Tarzan books in order, and then the Barsoom books and Amtor and Pelucidar and Caspak and whatever else.
I wouldn’t call myself an ERB scholar – I haven’t read every single thing ERB has written, but I can clearly state I am an ERB fan, and have enjoyed re-reading his stories for 40-odd years.
MCR, if you want to claim the most high exalted grand poo-bah bestest ever ERB fan in the whole wide world title, have at it. I’m sure you could trounce me at ERB-lore. But to state that fans of the movie don’t show any interest in ERB’s novels seems disingenuous to me because I think you know better. Sure, not all fans on that group page care about ERB. But there are plenty of people who have started reading the books and have stated so on that group page.
I loved the movie – it wasn’t what I had in my head for 40 years, but I enjoyed the heck out of it regardless. It has its flaws, but overall I think it works. You disagree and never pass up a chance to let anyone know that. I respect your opinion and I’m content to agree to disagree. You seem content to denigrate fans of the movie constantly, and then whine when they give it back to you.
To Dotar: Just delete my comment. I’m tired of trying to defend myself or present another viewpoint when all I get is being called a liar. It’s your site and I’ll respect you just to take it down.
MCR your claims that all stanton did was keep the names of the characters are ludicrous in the extreme . . .
Dotar Sojat wrote (or harrumphed-I didn’t get a harumph out of that guy!)
“How can you be so colossally consumed with your own view to deny others the right to enjoy BOTH the movie AND the books?”
Did I say they can’t enjoy both? No I didn’t. What I said was don’t claim this film is an actual adaptaiton of ERB’s work since the only thing Stanton even bothered to keep was the names of the characters.
As for the FB group-first I hate the idea that you have to sign in to even read what they have on there. I think it was Henried or one of my fellow contrarians who talked about the annoying Facebooking of the Internet and I agree with him. But beyond that let me ask you this: If these fans are just as effusive and loving of ERB’s books as they are this movie why then don’t they stand up and defend ERB when he gets criticized yet anytime anyone dares to criticize Stanton-from us contrarians to the film critics-they get their knickers in a twist? Why is it OK to defend one and not the other? Or is it because Andrew Stanton himself has been the most vocal critic of ERB’s work, constantly criticizing his shortcomings over ever saying anything positive about them?
As for inspiring new readers I have my doubts about that. Recently I had conversations with two people on a message board where they both admitted to never having read the books and were hoping that possibly some of the confusion they had with the movie-in particular the Therns’ immortal aspects and the medallion hooey-was explained more. I had to tell them both that none of that was in the books at all. Both were pretty nice about it and one even said he or she would read the books but they both seemed surprised about how radically different this movie was from the books. So to me the major issue is people are assuming that this movie is a faithful representation of Burroughs when it isn’t. It’s like people thinking Tarzan is a monosyllabic idiot who hangs out with Cheeta just because they saw the Weissmuller films.
I’m up for a contrarian challenge, too. If MCR spent time on the group’s facebook page today, he would have seen a long thread today directing a new member to various sites to download public domain ERB books. I don’t know MCR’s age, but I’d read all of ERB by the time I gradated high school in the 70’s, and have recommended them to others for decades now. I think many moviegoers accept that a book and a movie will not track one another exactly, and though the books may differ to some extent the movie has to my personal knowledge created several new ERB readers. I’m sure this news will thrill MCR! ;^)
Reading the Barsoom books at 10 to 12 years of age enabled me to top my class in English comprehension. It also led to a lifelong love for these books which flowed on to the movie,one of the best of all time from Disney. John Carter is the best kept secret in town !
Join the fight for a sequel at johncartertwo.com and on Facebook.
No, MCR — “Oh, come on” right back atcha. How can you be so colossally consumed with your own view to deny others the right to enjoy BOTH the movie AND the books? I can. I do. There is a steady stream of conversation at the FB site about both the books and the movies and I’m not going to let you say, and make it gospel, that you can only like one and not the others. That kind of wedge driving doesn’t work and I don t buy it. Not for a minute.
Happy 4th. 😉
“Members also engage in various social media activity across the internet promoting the film and the novels of Edgar Rice Burroughs on which it is based.”
Oh come on! (Contrarian statement coming!) Really? When has the fans of this movie ever had any interest in ERB’s novels? If they did they wouldn’t be touting it as being “based” on his books. Now if they want to try to save this franchise then fine. But don’t tie this in to ERB.