Warrior Princess Dejah Thoris in action — unveiled in new “Warhoon” John Carter TV Spot

32 comments

• ok that makes more sense. I must have been reading too fast and missed that. also it makes sense how he and Thuvia were kinda getting together at the end. i was thinking, Dang! Check out this little vato!

  thanks for answering the fertility question, I have a bio degree and that kind of stuff just runs through my head. Do you know why they have eggs and not live young?

• Carthoris was twenty not ten, five martian years as an egg (thats ten earth years) and emerges as a ten year old (more beetween 8-10)

  i know its weird, its just how it works

  and no, martian/human hybrids are not infertile!

• She was a skilled swordswoman in the Marvel run. Check out the issue “John Carter Is Dead” and immediately after.

• Yes, I read both “gods” and “warlord” and I don’t like Carthoris’ name, btw… doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue. And I guess you’ll just have to wait and see if there’s an egg or not. I always thought an egg made no sense. Red martians are human-like, not reptiles, or platypi (platypusses?) Why can’t she give birth vivaparously? (yeah, I used that word). Anyway, is a half-human half martian baby rendered infertile as in the case of a mule or a zonkey or a liger? I think I asked this question on IMDB, but I don’t think I got an answer. I was too distracted by these two issues that I really couldn’t focus much on Carthoris as a character. He was too unbelievable. At age 10 he can take down all of these monsters, etc and basically be as strong as John Carter excepting that he can’t jump as high.

  And I don’t think Stanton is a coward for anything. Any person who would take on this movie after all these years has got to be brave.

• Couldn’t of said it better myself. I totally am in your camp.

• Exactly, Jeff. In case anyone else reading this doesn’t know, Jeff was quoting Andrew Stanton there.

• All movies should have reshoots, anything otherwise ridiculous. Not having reshoots built in is like not rewriting your novel.

• “And you have to wonder about the judgement of someone who would (in Lynn Collins’ words) try to see how masculine he could make the incomparable Dejah Thoris and get away with. Does that sound romantic to anyone on this planet?”

  You’re missing the point you should be taking from the anecdote though. Any talk of reshoots on a movie makes people think, “Wow, they must’ve really screwed things up.”

  That logic does not apply to this movie.

  JOHN CARTER has been made using Pixar methods –which run entirely counter to normal Hollywood standards. They go in expecting to screw up and in fact plan to as early as possible. It’s nothing but countless rewrites, reworkings, rejiggerings from day one until the movie is perfect.

  Failing is part of the process, and it’s a process that’s resulted in staggering success at the box office. People LOVE Pixar films. It certainly isn’t because theirs is a process that encourages or even supports tired old cliche thinking. I think Stanton’s quote was, “People want to know what Pixar’s secret is. I tell them it’s because we make our films four times.”

  So, what we should be taking from Ms. Collins’ anecdote isn’t “Drat! He’s transformed Dejah Thoris into a cliche female warrior! Boo!” It’s, “Nice to see Stanton’s still using the winning Pixar method. Giving himself the freedom to experiment and screw up early on knowing full well he’ll get to recalibrate with reshoots later on is most likely going to result in a genius movie! What are the chances that a two time Oscar winning screenwriter and a Pulitzer winning novelist understand ERB and storytelling better than I could in as many years?”

• Appreciate the thoughts. For me … as much as I have what amounts to “unconditional love” for ERB ….. I feel that the scale of the gamble that Disney has taken requires that this film resonate with a huge number of people in pretty much every country around the world, and for that ….. I think the were right to bring in Stanton who campaigned for the job (lifetime ERB fan) and managed to bring in an average of over $650m on his last two films — films which, prior to their release, didn’t seem destined for that kind of success. He is being accused of cliches by some …..but it’s like the line between stereotype and archetype….who draws that line, and who draws the line between cliche and something that just resonates with a huge swathe of people. This cannot be a niche success….it is by its financial nature a ‘mass market’ exercise..

  So, anyway, I’m inclined to cut him some slack and pray that in 2012 he’s got “it” in the way Burroughs had “it” in 1912, and that the marriage of these two, with reasonable give and take on both sides, will get the lightning in a bottle for this one.

• Michael,

  Just to be clear here, I continue to hope this will be an enjoyable and successful film, and that we’ll see sequels. But it’s disappointing to see contemporary cliches (which weaken the movie) used when ERB’s original details would have worked fine, and might even seem fresh to an audience unfamiliar with them. And you have to wonder about the judgement of someone who would (in Lynn Collins’ words) try to see how masculine he could make the incomparable Dejah Thoris and get away with. Does that sound romantic to anyone on this planet?

  My worst fear was that the martians would swordfight like ninjas. Apparently we’ve been spared that and “John Carter of Vagina” (as in one of the earlier scripts). Yes, it could be a lot worse.

• For all we know she could be reluctant in the movie too……I think that’s something that’s getting overlooked….the context for her sword-wielding hasn’t been discussed that much. That said, Lynn Collins did an interview in which she acknowledged that a lot of the re-shoots were done to soften Dejah Thoris and dial back the “warrior-ish” ness of it all, and show her softer side. So it doesn’t sound like she’s reluctant. (See, I’ve talked myself out of it.)

• Why doesnt using a rifle in a moment of extremity count, especially since she is using it to defend SOMEONE ELSE! not herself! And how can you say with any certainty it isnt the same in the film?

  Now I can actually claim expertise on this because I run the wiki and I have done extensive research on the comics.

  The first occassion I can recall is in the funnies, the second after that I believe is in the amazon of barsoom story but I cant really call her Dejah Thoris because she ISNT!

  I think the earliest you can really say with Dejah Thoris being a “warrior woman” is the marvel comics in the seventies . . . up next I supposed would be Dark Horses Tarzan/John Carter, then dynamites warlord of mars: dejah thoris where she is a somwhat reluctant warrior

• I can’t actually claim a ton of expertise on the comments. I’m repeating what people have been saying over on IMDB message boards and places like that.

• Its kind of like King Kong, in the original King Kong the woman HATED Kong, but in the remakes before peter Jacksons they made her understanding and kind towards the ape . . . this new thing added in became more important to her character

  in adaptions of barsoom since hte original novel there have been too many warrior moments with Dejah Thoris to go back, it would actually almost feel awkward!

  or perhaps not I dont know!

  but I am not sure, but I feel like I can recall John Carter saying something about sparing with her, or teaching her to right . . . something I can recall . . . I just dont know

  I feeel almost like warrior princess is part of her character now, but not the default of her exsistence . . I dont feel like she is the person to go out of her way to fight

  I guess thats where the scientist comes in, a logical extension of a role Dejah Played once to give her character a fovus so she isnt always cutting people up!

• How long has she actually been a “butt kicker”? Certainly not in the Dells. Probably not in the JCB comics (using rifles in moments of extremity doesn’t really count, or else pioneer women would have to be considered “butt kickers” too–and I suppose a few of them might have been.) That portrayal doesn’t stand out in my memory from the DC or original Marvel years. I skipped the Malibu stories (didn’t they do a JC meets Tarzan), so I don’t know about them. I know that’s what Dynamite is doing, but is it really a lot older than that?

• I didnt tell you to do anything, I just asked you to stop! And to be honest I think that was kind of rude of you to try and get information out of her in such a hostile manner!

• She’s initially described this way:

  “And the sight which met my eyes was that of a slender, girlish figure, similar in every detail to the earthly women of my past life. She did not see me at first, but just as she was disappearing through the portal of the building which was to be her prison she turned, and her eyes met mine. Her face was oval and beautiful in the extreme, her every feature was finely chiseled and exquisite, her eyes large and lustrous and her head surmounted by a mass of coal black, waving hair, caught loosely into a strange yet becoming coiffure. Her skin was of a light reddish copper color, against which the crimson glow of her cheeks and the ruby of her beautifully molded lips shone with a strangely enhancing effect.”

  I don’t recall if her actual age is ever discussed — her apparent age would seem to be about like JC’s apparent age, or perhaps a bit younger.

• Thanks for the information. Apparently my memory was correct and there is no real information about her exact role. That’s rather clever of ERB, since readers can interpret however they like. If they want to think she was operating the scientific equipment, they can. If they want to think she was representing her grandfather, they can. Either way, she’s certainly in a position of respect.

  I still need to go back and figure out how old she was supposed to be.

• I recently re-read Princess, and I was really struck with how strong Dejah Thoris is/was — particularly so when one considers the context and the era. My sense of it was that depicting her pretty much as written, she would have been plenty strong. But …. she’s been a sword-wieldin’ butt kicking’ sexy warrior in comic books since forever, and I think that to ignore that and revert to the novel version would have been an unnecessary attempt to over-conform to the novel. It hunk this also justifies the casting choice of Lynn Collins in a way that keeping her as the “original Dejah” would probably not.

• Yeah, it sounds to me like Dejah Thoris was the scientist in charge of the mission. ERB wrote his book in 1912, and gave his her not just a job but a position of authority. This was eight years before the 19th Amendment passed giving women the right to vote in 1920.

  You can’t tell me he didn’t know what he was writing or implying to his readers. Anyway, one of the sexiest women I’ve met in the last ten years was a librarian with several college degrees, a black belt in kung fu and an interest in trapeze work.

  Can’t speak for other men, but I don’t need a woman to be weak to feel strong. Give me Emma Peel over a damsel in distress any day.

• How dare you tell anyone what to do about anything. Go get your own site if you want to be a moderator.

  If you were paying attention you’d know that she’s seen the film. Since I don’t have a way of contacting her directly, this seems like a reasonable way of teasing a little more information out of her.

  I have a general rule for dealing with people like you on the internet. I’ll now apply it.

• In the book, Dejah Thoris is leading a scientific expedition taking atmospheric readings relating to the degradation of the atmposhere, and ways to survive it. See:

  “What is your name?” asked Lorquas Ptomel, addressing the prisoner.

  “Dejah Thoris, daughter of Mors Kajak of Helium.”

  “And the nature of your expedition?” he continued.

  “It was a purely scientific research party sent out by my father’s father, the Jeddak of Helium, to rechart the air currents, and to take atmospheric density tests,” replied the fair prisoner, in a low, well-modulated voice.

  “We were unprepared for battle,” she continued, “as we were on a peaceful mission, as our banners and the colors of our craft denoted. The work we were doing was as much in your interests as in ours, for you know full well that were it not for our labors and the fruits of our scientific operations there would not be enough air or water on Mars to support a single human life. For ages we have maintained the air and water supply at practically the same point without an appreciable loss, and we have done this in the face of the brutal and ignorant interference of your green men.

• Okay, all she asked was a question about the film! You hijacked this comment to try and insult Andrew Stanton based on you not having information on whether or not carthoris’ egg will be seen in the film!

  I forget what logical fallacy this is, but I think it is arguing from ignorance!

  You dont know if carthoris’ egg will be in the film, therefore you assume it is not, and you assume that andrew stanton by extension has no guts

  Please stop commenting here if all your comments are going to be like this!

• See how can I have a conversation with you when you create false information? nobody said Dejah Thoris in the film would be a blood thirsty princess!

  here is the page JCB drew that I refer to, I am sure he has done more with her than this

  http://www.erbzine.com/mag37/fn47jc5.jpg

  now as for this statement of yours

  “There are reasons that warrior women belong to mythology rather than history: temperament and upper body strength. Have you ever swung a broadsword? Healthy young men wear out in a few minutes.”

  I see no motivation for writing that other than sexism, please shut up now because you are making a fool of yourself!

• From memory: DT is part of a royal scientific expedition sent out by her father. Is there any mention of her filling a scientific roll, or was she more of a royal administrator? Besides, wasn’t she quite young?

  Burroughs was telling fairy tales in a modernized form. He understood that young males like to envision themselves as heroes rescuing fair maidens. If the maiden is a tough hero herself, it doesn’t work so well. Burroughs understood romance. I don’t think Stanton does.

• I’m with you. As long as she doesn’t sacrifice too much “incomparable-ness” i’m fine with it.

• Tavia masquerades as a man (padwar? Wonder how that was possible in Barsoomian clothing). I don’t recall how good she was, but she was an anomaly on Mars. Can you cite the JCB story you have in mind?

  DT probably picked up a sword at least once in the trilogy, but she was certainly not a blood-thirsty warrioress. There are reasons that warrior women belong to mythology rather than history: temperament and upper body strength. Have you ever swung a broadsword? Healthy young men wear out in a few minutes.

  I suggest you get over the hardship of having to endure the opinions of others.

• Not sure, but I’m pretty sure ERB making Dejah Thoris a scientist back in 1912 probably made her seem quite emancipated and forward thinking for the time. I have no idea what qualities to give her in order to have the same effect on a 2012 audience. Seems to me though that fighting would be the least of it.

  What kind of Princess of MARS doesn’t know how to fight anyway?

• Rebecca,

  Have you read Gods of Mars yet? It’s better than Princess–Burroughs had really learner how to write by then. There probably isn’t another book in existence with that much headlong action. The problem is that Carthoris, son of JC and DT, is a primary character, and I doubt Stanton has set him up at the end of this first movie. Did he have the guts to include the incubator at the end?

• in John Coleman Burroughs adaption of a princess of mars he does something similiar, and ERB wrote a book with one of the main characters being a fighting princess (fighting man of mars)

  so lets get over it already people, complaining about it is getting ooooooooooolllllllddddddd!

• Yeah that’s when John Carter crashes the wedding. I can’t remember if that’s before of after the Tharks arrive.

• We all know that every girl dreams of lopping off body parts and spattering herself with blood. That certainly will attract the boys! It’s why history is overrun with warrior women.

  Clearly Stanton is enamored of PC cliches.

  Vandal.