The Facebook John Carter Sequel group in action; (and commenters criticizing them as “rabid, fetishistic”. Which is it?)

35 comments

• I can go for a Faygo Rock ‘n Rye, Henreid! Hey, Lee Thomas didn’t like JC and we kid about it all the time at the station.

• You guys are obviously free to call yourselves whatever you want, I just offered some suggestions for the sake of accuracy ;), specifically for those of us who love Barsoom but aren’t thrilled with Stanton’s take on it (and are particularly repulsed by what he might do to a sequel).

  Khanada, darling, however rotten and black-hearted I am, you misunderstand what I’ve said and jump to conclusions. No one is saying you can’t love both, or hate both, or that you are not a ‘true’ fan for any reason. You clearly are. And yes, Debbie – tongue firmly in cheek.
  I am not the boss of anyone.

  Kevin, you’re in Detroit?
  I’m right downtown – we should grab a beer (coffee? faygo?) sometime, first round on me.

  Panda Lord, I just wanted to type ‘Panda Lord’ again. No offense.

  Steve, your righteous fury has surpassed us all lately. I’d be the last one to ever try calming it, you sound like you connect to the books the way I do, and feel the same sense of betrayal from the film and the sheer arrogance of the filmmakers. I take solace in the belief that the way events played out, a ‘Floating Thern/Fainting Thark’ trilogy is less likely than a more faithful version 5-10 years down the line, bolstered by the expanding ERB fanbase that this film is helping to create. That is reason enough for me to feel positive about the zealous efforts of the Barsoomian Stantoneers.

  But just for the record – I don’t buy blu-rays and all the merchandise for movies I ‘hate’. I fundamentally disagree with it, and ultimately I think Stanton reaped what he sowed… but I do not ‘hate’ the film. That’s a term that gets thrown around way too much these days.

  I doubt anyone is here *because* they ‘hate’ something, but because we love something — that being the Martian world of Edgar Rice Burroughs.

• Henreid wrote:

  Panda Lord, it’s hardly fair to claim ‘Barsoomians’ when that creates an assumption that all fans of Barsoom agree with your ‘We Want An Andrew Stanton Sequel’ banner.I’m sure we can all work with you on this to find something accurate to film fans that does not unfairly lay claim to the literary Barsoom. Something that connects the fanbase more specifically to the beloved film that binds it…

  Hmmm….interesting point, trying ti figure out how I feel about it. Actually it might be interesting if the film fans appropriate the name “Barsoomians” and then the original Barsoomians (readers) object……might be interesting to see where that goes, as it might attract some attention.

  But really — my estimate is it’s a pretty small minority of the book fans who are really hostile to the movie. Most either like it, or are okay with it. It’s a pretty small but very vocal hardcore who just hate it and thus would object to fans of the films calling themselves Barsoomians.

  So …..if you object, maybe you should just let the film fans call themselves Barsoomians and refer to the book fans who hate Stanton’s movie as “True Barsoomians” or “Original Barsoomians” or something. 😉

• MCR, I don’t think he’s really a threat, but he is respected by some or he wouldn’t still be a critic and have a job at the Detroit News after tons of layoffs now and over the past couple years at both papers in town. I just wanted to straighten that out. I look at it as possibly more could be sold or rented if the proof of fans exist. A lot of people think it bombed because they thought nobody liked it from the write down news and Ross getting fired, but once they find out a lot of people do like it, they are open to give it a shot.

• Now Henried, maybe you were speaking tongue in cheek when you don’t want us calling ourselves Barsoomians, maybe not. Is that how you think of yourself? As a Barsoomian, really. I don’t go around introducing myself as a barsoomian. Usually a nickname just sticks and that’s all it is a nickname. We have bandied about various names but so far none of them have become prevalent. Barsoomians is as good as any other, especially if it catches in the craw of ERB Book purists who refuse to enjoy the only John Carter movie (besides Asylum’s 2007) that we are likely to get.. I am sure no one is coming to you for script approval or your ideas for a reboot. So why not let us love the movie we have and you go back to reading the book. Let us call ourselves whatever we want. We really don’t need your permission. You are not in charge.

• Khanada Taylor wrote:
  ” I don’t have to love one and hate the other in order to be a true fan of the original stories.”

  Then why do people who love the books but didn’t like-or flat out hated-this movie get treated like lepers at the family picnic? Or get called “trolls” as you did in one of your posts? That’s the thing-no one is questioning whether or not you or anyone else is a “true fan” of the books but it seems you have to worship this film to be shown any respect or to have your comments not treated as trolling.

  Kevin Sanderson wrote:
  “Unfortunately, Tom Long is bigger potatoes… But his review hasn’t been hurting JC sales here in the Detroit area and it’s been renting well. I checked more video stores today. It’s mostly low stock or rented out

  Well then clearly he isn’t doing any damage so I don’t see that he’s necessarily a big potato or that he should be taken as some sort of threat against John Carter or the fans. And if you like the movie isn’t that the important thing?

  (And careful Henried. I had my own nickname for some of the more overzealous fans-Stantonites-back on IMDB when it wasn’t a flop troll house. Some people didn’t mind while others got offensive. So just giving you a heads up!)

• And FYI, I LOVE the books and I LOVE the film. I don’t have to love one and hate the other in order to be a true fan of the original stories. I think some people coming here for unknown reasons seem to think that. How very, very narrow-minded they are.

• Jan, Excellent!! 😀

• Unfortunately, Tom Long is bigger potatoes. He’s been the movie critic at the Detroit News for many years now and he’s kept his job where the Detroit Free Press folks are long gone (and sadly more every day). He’s decent to people in person so I won’t slam him too hard, but he is negative more often than not and I usually disagree with his reviews. If he doesn’t like a film, I might actually like or love it. But his review hasn’t been hurting JC sales here in the Detroit area and it’s been renting well. I checked more video stores today. It’s mostly low stock or rented out

• Panda Lord, it’s hardly fair to claim ‘Barsoomians’ when that creates an assumption that all fans of Barsoom agree with your ‘We Want An Andrew Stanton Sequel’ banner.

  I’m sure we can all work with you on this to find something accurate to film fans that does not unfairly lay claim to the literary Barsoom. Something that connects the fanbase more specifically to the beloved film that binds it…

  ‘Stantoneers’? ‘Kitsch Carters’? ‘Kantos Khanadas’?
  ‘Blind Apes’?
  ‘Calots’? After all Woola is the fan favorite, is he not?

  I’m poking a little fun, Panda Lord, but it’s a fair point I’m making.

• WOW! – “rabid, fetishistic”. Is that what you call us who are running a “campaign” for John Carter? (Fetishism, the attribution of religious or mystical qualities to inanimate objects, known as fetishes). Hmmm… could that be me and my Petition maybe?

  The proof of the pudding is: that no matter what ANY of us say or feel, the proof is in the thousands and thousands of fans all over the world who love John carter. The proof is in the fact that the John carter DVD just hit Number 1 in sales. None of us can change that no matter how we feel. If people don’t like John Carter, why are you even here? Why do you keep coming back? Could it be some kind of peculiar “fetish”?

• Correct, MCR. I was referring to having to use an fbook account to comment. There are pros to that, but it walks a line I’m not comfortable with considering some of the practices of that company.

  I really didn’t mean my comment as an attack on Stantoneers (ha, a suggestion), rather a warning that you can go over the top and have the opposite effect you mean to.
  I know I’ve done it.

  Seriously, though – give ‘Speed Racer’ a chance… if you like heart, soul and intelligence in a breathtaking fantasy world with incredible action that got it’s a$$ kicked by the media as much as you say you do.

• I like to think of myself as one who is clear headed and thoughtful in how I approach different aspects within life. As one who is a fan of the John Carter film and who is taking an active part in some shame fashion to take positive actions so as to help ensure that a sequel is made, I find it strange and just plain “Troll-ish” some of the odd accusations levied against those who are leaving comments on posts relating to the film and or who have been tracking information related to the film. I reckon some folks are just very bitter in life and feel the need to be as disagreeable and odious. In the meantime, I, along with my fellow “Barsoomians” will be enjoying our friendly and comradely community and work hard to helping ensure a sequel is made.

• Oh, and one more thing. It doesn’t seem like the trolls take too kindly to us out there being positive about something! Oh Nooooo! That must not be allowed to continue! They must fight it with their rotten-egg behavior and burning black hate for all things! 😉

• So we’re fanatics, eh? Well, I guess that puts us in the same category as the Trekkies and the Star Wars geeks then! YEA! I can go with that!

  We have a purpose. We are running a campaign! Without us John Carter has no voice, especially now after it’s out of theaters and the disk release has already happened. And we are countering the hate out there with overall very positive and level-headed comments. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Spreading the good that is Barsoom! Keep it up, guys! We will make a difference and because of our hard work, tones toward John Carter will change and it will gain success and we WILL GET THOSE SEQUELS!!

• MCR … I don’tt disagree that this guy’s review is small potatoes. But there is another value. People who espouse a “cause” are frequently frustrated by the sense that they can’t do anything to affect the outcome. This sort of thing makes people feel they are doing something — so there is some intrinsic value to the fans.

  Maybe that’s what Henreid meant — makes sense.

• Dotar Sojat wrote:
  “Henried (who himself has made his comments with a reasonable tone, which is a good thing) opposing their “infiltration of the entire internet” ”

  I don’t think Henried meant the JC Sequel group but just Facebook in general. It seems on a lot of sites you have to sign into Facebook to even leave a comment which is a big hassle to do. I could be wrong but that’s how I took that comment.

  As for the group being “rabid” again it just goes back to what I thought-they’re getting themselves worked up for nothing. It’s a short paragraph, not worth the time responding to. If this guy was Roger Ebert-who has a bigger base of readers and more influence-then I would understand and say yes respond. I don’t think they’re “rabid” or “fetishistic” any more than any other fan base but sometimes you need to be selective in picking your battles. And I understand your defense of presenting an opposing viewpoint but in this case it’s not a battle worth fighting. Save the battle for when it counts, not on minor skirmshes like some guy’s DVD review.

• Hmmm….. so we’ve got Davidson calling the JC fans “Rabid” and “Fetishistic” and we’ve got Henried (who himself has made his comments with a reasonable tone, which is a good thing) opposing their “infiltration of the entire internet” and saying the “over-eager tone is undoing their intent”……..I’m just not “getting it”. The FB group has urged its members to adopt a reasonable tone in their comments so I don’t quite know if D and H are referring to the actual FB group, or to some other commenters they’ve come across in their travels.

  Okay, so what I’ve done is copy/paste all the comments (no deletions) from the article in question and put them into the article. So anyone can now look at the actual comments …… and judge for themselves just how rabid and fetishistic they are, or are not.

• *Sigh* Those last (your)s should be (their)s.
  Also, Chessmen rules.

• I’d get involved over there, but I oppose this facebook infiltration of the entire internet.
  The over-eager tone is undoing their intent enough.

  This is veering into ‘Firefly’ territory, where the fans became so rabidly convinced that their ‘thing’ was the bestest thing ever that you couldn’t really even stand to be in the same room (or forum) with them. Don’t take that comparison too seriously, though. The ‘browncoats’ earned themselves ‘Serenity’, which was sort of awesome, but practically speaking – their ‘thing’ wasn’t labelled as one of the biggest bombs of all time.

  Has the facebook group adopted a semi-proud, semi-demeaning label for themselves yet (Trekker, Browncoat, Monster)? I don’t think Disney’s black eye has healed yet, and by all accounts they’d prefer Stanton back at Pixar, so don’t expect to see your preciously emasculated ‘Disney John Carter: Gods of Mars’, bereft of it’s core themes and intensity, any time soon. Your passion, however overdone and misplaced, is admirable anyway.

  I wish this kind of thing had sprung up around Speed Racer, a truly bold, unfairly-maligned film adaptation that actually deserved some of this fervent defense.

• Chessmen would make for a strong movie-the Kaldanes, a strong female lead and a live action Jetan scene would be great. I don’t know about Rodriguez directing though. If he was it would never get made or take 10 years for him to finally announce he’s making it. Still he would probably do an interesting job-and spare us Mopey Carter. 🙂

• Chessmen would be a blast to see. Kaldanes are just an insane and brilliant idea! Tara is very much a modern-day relevant heroin, she kills by herself 4.5 people in it! There are great scenes, the storm, the live jetan game. The jed-as-panthan schtick works well, and there’s great humor in that not-so-brave jeddak antagonist, plus the character of I-Gos.

  I really wish someone like Robert Rodriguez would give either Thuvia or Chessmen a try. We would have an idea of what his original plans were for adapting A Princess of Mars.

• Steve Davidson,

  We’ve got contrarians on here but you set the bar. You have no equal.

  “It’s quite easy to show a pic of an “empty” sales display.” First of all, not as easy as it would be for you or anybody to come back with a cooked up story that suits your agenda and post it as fact. So what’s your point? And, now that I think of it, just how easy is it to show a pic of an “empty” sales display in a major retailer? Explain that to me? A sales display with John Carter posters on either side of it, and John Carter sales price tags on the bins, …..so I supposed Joe John Carter fan just walks in and tells the store manager he wants to strip out all the JC DVD’s and take a picture and the store manager says sure, happy to be of help?

  “Totalitarian Regime” — for doing a “Last Trip to Barsoom” farewell sendoff for the film? Are you kidding?

  “Rabid, fetishistic, sacrificial worship” …. whoa, down boy! I kind of imagine you traveling around the internet spreading your particular brand of disdain for the movie far and wide, and I bet you do run up against some of that. But at least not here on this site – not to my knowledge.

  “is being conducted in public and therefore any attempt to use it to convince the powers that be are already gained and suspect.” Yes, just as it failed miserably to do it in public for Star Trek and Firefly, I suppose.

  Don’t assume that because what you see is in public, that that is the only angle. There is “public diplomacy”, and “private diplomacy” and private is not visible because its private.

  Actually, it now occurs to me that if they’re getting under your skin that much, they must be doing something right.

• It’s quite easy to show a pic of an “empty” sales display.

  I’ve seen so much BS from the love JC crowd, starting with the ill-fated demand for a sequel, followed by organized shout fests against anyone who feels differently – in some respects their actions come across as those of a totalitarian regime; public claims of buying multiple copies of the DVD, packing theaters on the last day of showing to make it look good.

  Here’s my problem – and that of anyone from the outside who might also be watching: the rabid, fetishistic sacrificial worship of this film is being conducted in public and therefore any attempt to use it to convince the powers that be are already tainted and suspect. If a ‘recall’ ever had any chance of real success, that is long gone, and mostly due to the actions of those who are motivated by a a true – however misguided – love of the film.

  Over the top enthusiasm is a good thing, for a while. After that, it just gets annoying, and eventually it ossifies and concretizes into a determination to make sure that whatever the fanatics want, they will not get – ever.

  The push for JC has reached or is very close to that point.

• It has been selling pretty well at the 4 Best Buys I frequent often here in the Detroit area (Northville, Novi, Farmington Hills and Southfield. It’s also renting very well. One guy I know has been trying to rent it and every time he goes into his local video store all 10 copies are out. I was in another video store today and 7 of their 10 copies were out.

• Steve Davidson,
  Interesting comments. One anecdote is a data point, so thanks. Fans have been monitoring the sales and writing about it here, on Facebook, and on the IMDB message boards, and posting photos of sold out John Carter bins to prove it, and there doesn’t seem to be much doubt that JC sold out in in many venues very quickly. What was unclear was whether the sold-out status reflected significant demand, or light buying by the stores. We’ll start to get a feel for that when the sales reports become available. My guess is, there was a pretty light buy by most outlets. At a minimum, though, it’s clear that JC outperformed the expectations of most retailers…..unfortunately those expectations were obviously pretty low.

  As for your “go make your own damn movie” comment – now there’s an idea and something like that may come to pass in some fashion at some point. I don’t think people are ready to let go of Stanton and Disney yet though — as you and a few of my contrarian buddies around here have a hard time accepting, the fans who are really motivated are people who really love the movie, Stanton’s movie…..so they will hold out for that for awhile at least.

  As for Disney’s trademark protected terms — it goes pretty deep, 40 or so terms in all, according to ERB Inc. And of course now they copyright protection for their movie, which strengthens everything. The first five books are in the public domain, though, so somebody else might take a shot at Thuvia or Chessmen. Mastermind is the one that would be the easiest to do, but it’s not in PD….

• MCR Wrote

  If they do then they need to lighten up a little bit. It’s a review-in fact it’s a paragraph, not even a full review-that as I said says nothing new. Is it lazy? I guess that depends on what you wanted. A 10-page dissertation? Look I understand that yes there are people who LOVE this movie but they are also people who HATE this movie or weren’t blown away by it either.I think once the fans realize that then maybe they’ll realize that sometimes its not worth getting upset when someone posts a paragraph slamming the movie. Save the anger for those who deserve it-mostly Disney-not some guy who just doesn’t share your opinion.

  That kind of misses the point. THe point with the comments is not just to vent — it’s to provide a counterpoint to the review because people do read the comments and, one could argue, that many comments supportive of the movie could sway someone who might otherwise just accept the review and figure the movie’s a turd, which is certainly what the review is saying. So there is some purpose to what they are doing, and it does help. It’s not about getting upset, it’s about affecting the reader’s overall response to what they are reading. It’s like giving the opposite political party a chance to offer a response after the President speaks, or whatever.

• Gee, nice to know I have a title other than some of the things your minions have called me in the past.

  Beyond the review, here is what I think is significant – at least in terms of “we want a sequel” thinking.

  This past weekend I monitored purchases of the DVD at local retailers including Best Buy, Walmart and the local supermarket, which is one of the largest chains in the country (Shaws).

  I did not see ONE copy in the act of getting purchased. I did ask several people who looked it over at the various locations and talked to the employee at Shaws who’s work station (customer service) was right next to the display.

  Not a one of them had heard either anything good or bad about the movie. In fact, hardly any of them, had heard of it in any manner at all. But perhaps most significantly – NONE OF THEM WAS INTERESTED IN IT AT ALL.

  It didn’t grab their 3 second attention span the first time around and it doesn’t look like it is going to on the rerun.

  Too bad. Oh well.

  I honestly think that your and the JC Lovers Brigade best bet would be a kickstarter campaign. Hire your own director and actors and CGI houses, stop whining about it, stop bothering Disney about it and go out and make what you are all clamoring for. After all, the first three books are in public domain, and its easy to check with the trademark office to see what names you need to stay away from. And yes, I’d be happy to watch such an effort when completed, but beware, I’ll also give it an honest review.

• I left my comment there as well. It’s pretty evident that many of these reviewers (and I don’t care if they are writing a paragraph or 2 pages), are not doing their homework. That is very obvious. Otherwise, they would begin to see the turn-around John Carter has created in the past several months, whether that be fans, box office or DVD sales. If you are going to review something, do your own review and do your homework. Search the internet and get the information. Just don’t hop on some previous 3-month old bandwagon. If that’s what reviewers are going to do, then I am definitely going to give my opinion and comment!

• I don’t do facebook, but here is the comment that I would have left regarding the Detroit News Review:
  John Carter is the best movie I’ve seen since the LOTR Trilogy movies, period! The source ERB Mars novels inspired numerous SF & Fantasy authors to create their own worlds of imagination and possibility, not least of which was the late, great Ray Bradbury, whose first creative writing was his own sequel to Burrough’s Warlord of Mars, written by Bradbury at the age of 12! If you like epic Sci-Fi and Fantasy movies, you will love John Carter! Oh, and the $270 Million foreign box office results for John Carter doesn’t seem too shabby! One final comment, Tom Long’s John Carter Review: Grade F

• Dotar Sojat wrote:
  “Are you so …um ….jaded that you can’t see how people who actually LOVE the movie (yes, they exist, there are lots of them) would take exception to that?”

  If they do then they need to lighten up a little bit. It’s a review-in fact it’s a paragraph, not even a full review-that as I said says nothing new. Is it lazy? I guess that depends on what you wanted. A 10-page dissertation? Look I understand that yes there are people who LOVE this movie but they are also people who HATE this movie or weren’t blown away by it either.I think once the fans realize that then maybe they’ll realize that sometimes its not worth getting upset when someone posts a paragraph slamming the movie. Save the anger for those who deserve it-mostly Disney-not some guy who just doesn’t share your opinion.

• My feelings on this review are posted in the comments there.

• “Horrific” might be a little harsh, but “lazy hits the nail on the head:

  “Certainly the biggest commercial and critical bomb”…..um, Battleship anybody?

  “Andrew Stanton, who obviuosly should have stuck to animation”…..Stanton’s strength, in my opinion, is making a viewer care for and feel the characters on the screen, which is something that not enough directors have the skill to do. Nothing in John Carter changes that for me.

  “….but it’s hard to care about all the clamor as Stanton brings a lot of noise and very little humanity.”….Dotar, this is where your term “lazy” is spot-on. John Carter may not represent ERB’s writings well in ERB fans’ eyes. John Carter may mis-represent the title character and it may take artistic liberties that can be disagreed with. But lacking humanity it does not. And the part about “lots of noise” (Huh?!). I thought Stanton did a good job of injecting quiet and subtle scenes or scenes without much dialogue, like when Carter was taken prisoner on earth, Woolah standing by Carter’s side in battle, or Sola’s and Tars’ animated expressions that communicated so much.

• MCR: Really?

  Headline: “Carter Fails”
  Grade: “D”
  Quote: “The movie is filled with exotic creatures and action sequences, but it’s hard to care about all the clamor as Stanton brings a lot of noise and very little humanity. Headache-inducing.”

  Are you so …um ….jaded that you can’t see how people who actually LOVE the movie (yes, they exist, there are lots of them) would take exception to that?

• OK where was this “horrific” review? All I saw was a paragraph that spent most of its brief space recounting the plot and said at best the same things that most of the critics of the film have said. I’m not defending the reviewer but I just don’t see the review being any worse than most and wasn’t all that necessary for comment patrol.