Opinion: Robert Iger Casually Disses John Carter Again — what does it mean?
In an interview given while touring Disney California Adventure published on August 9 by Business Week, Disney CEO Bob Iger was asked about whether there would be John Carter attractions at the theme park, and he had this to say:
I take it we’re not going to see a John Carter attraction?
No, no, no. You know, you try things creatively all the time, and while you want every one of them to be great, and you set out to do that, that’s not always going to end up being the case.
This comment was consistent with his other recent public comment on John Carter, which came in May when he spoke on the record about John Carter to Bloomberg’s Carol Muller:
Iger: They’re all our babies and we root for all of them to do well….we’re relatively realistic about the prospects of our film when we see enough of each film…i mean, you get a good sense if you’ve been in the business long enough whether something is going to do well or not, before it comes out, research aside — it’s more…it’s an instinct. There was a point before Carter came out that I had a very strong sense that it was going to be very challenging……
Muller: But at that point you were just too way in, right? you have to run with it?
Iger: Yes. we weren’t going to not distribute it. nor did we really run away from supporting it fully because i felt that given the size of the investment, we owed it to ourselves, to at least give it the shot that it deserved.
Muller: And you never know…..
Iger: No, you never know…..but we had a strong sense…i was very worried about it … not that I wasn’t cheering for it …..but I was worried about it.
Now, one would think that the CEO of Disney Corp would be a bit less of a bull in china shop and come up with a reply that shows a tiny modicum of respect to the Pixar team that made and championed John Carter and who are still important to Disney — I’m referring to John Lasseter who championed the project, Andrew Stanton who directed it, and Pixar GM Jim Morris who produced it, and Pixar producer Lindsey Collins who produced it — not to mention a large group of Pixar employees who worked on the film. But Iger doesn’t seem to feel any need for that, and perhaps it really doesn’t matter — he holds all the cards. But without breaking a sweat he could have just as easily answered with a comment along the lines of, “You know, this is a complicated business and everything has to come together for a film to be a success — production, marketing, all of it. That just didn’t happen for John Carter even though some very fine people did their very best.” Instead, he once again places it 100% on the shoulders of the film-makers. Imagine how Stanton and Morris and Lasseter and Lindsey Collins sitting in their offices at Pixar feel when they hear Iger say something like that — knowing what they know about how Disney didn’t support the film with a cogent and well executed marketing campaign? No wonder there are so many rumors floating around about an Iger-Lasseter feud. Problem is – that’s too one-sided to call it a “feud” — all the firepower is on Iger’s side given the fact that Disney Studios just supplies just 7% of operating revenue to the overall Disney Corp. Still, it’s the Studio IP that is the “wave generator” through the rest of the eco-system, and Pixar is a pretty important piece of that puzzle.
Anyway — setting that aside, there is the issue of – – what is the takeaway from Iger’s comments and how does it affect anyone who is interested in the status of the rights to John Carter going forward? It’s time to acknowledge that with two possible long-shot exceptions, there will be no John Carter sequel on Iger’s watch — his comments have truly shut the door on that. What are the exceptions? One would be the emergence of a Marvel-type structure under which ERB Inc. obtains independent financing, presumably from Chinese and Russian co-producers, leaving Disney with the requirement to only finance the marketing cost and to handle the distribution, as they do with Marvel. That’s a long shot because ERB Inc has never done that sort of thing — and if they were to find coproducers they might well prefer to align them with some post-Disney US distribution partner, given Iger’s attitude and the history with Disney. But anyway — having production financing from a source other than Disney, leaving Disney to just distribute, is almost certainly the only possibility of moving the franchise forward on Disney on Iger’s watch. And that’s a long shot. the other would be John Lasseter deciding to in essence go kamikaze in support of it. Lasseter is alleged to be feuding with Iger and he’s pugnacious enough that it’s not impossible to envision something like that happening. But it’s a longshot, and Lasseter, as important a player as he is, probably just doesn’t have the firepower to make much of a difference to Iger. Rememer Disney Studios, including Pixar, only account for 7% of operating revenue of Disney Corp…..and even if you buy the argument that the studio is the IP “wave-maker” and thus has value greater than its relative contribution to operating income …. it still leaves Lasseter with not enough firepower to exert a lot of influence on Iger.
Iger is scheduled to retire in 2015 and the rights revert back to ERB Inc, as we understand it, on March 9, 2015.
Bottom line — those hoping for a Disney produced John Carter sequel are pretty much down to either John Lasseter deciding to become the champion of lost causes and put it all on the line, or someone pulling a rabbit out of a hat in the form of a foreign coproduction scenario that provides all or most of the financing, leaving Disney as the distributor with only the marketing investment. Neither are very likely, but the whole John Carter sequel issue has never had any aspect of it that is “very likely” except that it’s “very likely” a sequel won’t happen through Disney.
Should the Agenda Change?
Iger’s “no, no, no” clearly signals that Iger’s Disney is done done done with John Carter. That’s a given. The question then becomes — should ERB Inc seek early termination of the contract with Disney, or at least portions of it? As it is now, ERB Inc. can’t do any number of things that would be natural at this point if it could do so — commission graphic novels, novels, perhaps an animated series, merchandising, all manner of smaller, do-able things that are doable because, worldwide, John Carter did earn $285M and 30M people did see it in theaters and it does have a following. But ERB Inc can’t do any of that because Disney has all the rights — yet Disney has no intention of doing any of that. Has the time come where ERB Inc might be starting a conversation with Disney about early termination or conversion to non-exclusive status? Perhaps so. Seeking such things from Disney is completely within ERB Inc’s rights, and it is not uncommon in the industry for such discussions to take place.
I know there are those who will say forget it, Disney will squeeze every single drop of blood out of it and ERB Inc can take a hike. I’m not quite willing to concede that. I think that there are areas within the overall rights package where Disney might be cooperative.
Even if such a push were to not produce early termination, it might be successful in getting Disney to make a definitive declaration that they do not intend to extend the rights beyond March 2015. That would allow ERB Inc, for example, to at least begin dialogue with potential licensees and partners both in the US and overseas. Given how long it takes to set things up, 2015 would likely be here by the time something tangible had been lined up……
Anyway, it’s clearly time to start thinking about these things.
19 comments
No problem, MCR, I wasn’t really hoping for you to agree on that. 🙂
Pascalahad wrote:
‘That point still stands in my opinion in Stanton’s movie. The Therns ARE frauds, their powers are clearly stated as technological in nature,”
No that point does not stand in this movie. As pointed out Burroughs never said they had advanced technology that can give them God-like powers. The problem was using this technology was a cheat since it gave them unlimited powers. There was no where any mention that any of the inhabitants of Barsoom had this sort of power in the books. Now some had suggested that if Stanton was going to go with his shape shifting nonsense possibly linking it the Lotharians and their mental maniupulations as seen in Thuvia, Maid of Mars. Now I still think the shape shifting was pointless but at least that would have been more in keeping with Burroughs since he had established this possibility-as well as the idea that the Therns and the Lotharians as possible descendants of the Orovars. I could have lived with that. Not aliens with super gadgets since that becomes ridiculous after a while, especially if it can seemingly do everything as it does in this movie-even sending to other planets.
It reminds me of something that-of all people-William Shatner said about using time travel as an easy out in storytelling, that if you want to fix or change something, just go back in time. That’s the issue with the whole advanced technology and the medallion Stanton came up with. Its an easy out-and a cheap one at that.
Now that’s fine if you think Stanton maintained that element. I just felt he messed up in that case and considering the Therns real purpose in the movie was to be nothing more than sequel bait ultimately an empty element. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree there. I’ll try to moan, cry and rant more next time.
Matai Shang’s exact words are “we are not haunted by mortality as you are. We are eternal.” Sounds pretty clear to me. Not the words of a man that wants you to believe you can kill him with a bullet.
In checking these words, I had to finish the rest of the movie. Damn, I ended almost with tears in my eyes. I said almost. I’m a guy. 🙂
When Matai Shang said they were immortal I took it that he meant they were
immortal in much the same way as JC was immortal in the books.
Thet don’t die of old age or disease but can die from a sword thrust.
Or perhaps he meant that the purpose of the therns was immortal or that they were immortal in some spirital way.
Awwww c’mon MCR.
Don’t be such a spoilsport!
Is MCR an acronym?
Moan, Cry, Rant.
Imagine a “out of this world” valley Dor that looks just like a Utah desert.
Imagine black men that are actually caucasians sporting black tattoos and black capes.
Imagine the massive armada of the black men that consists of a few ships
that look exactly like the ships of Helium and Zodanga except that they have
black flags instead of red or blue.
Imagine the ravishing Thuvia and the smokin’ hot Phaidor played by a couple of “plain janes”.
I just had a brainstorm.
In the book Phaidor attempts to seduce JC.
What if in in the movie she succeeds and Dejah Thoris find out?
You did mention that most likely Stanton will find a way to make JC
damaged goods.
How about if Carthoris is damaged goods?
He is a smart mouth spoiled rich kid who don’t need no daddy.
He got his own music theme with a rap beat.
He got a light saber or two stashed away somewere.
What about the Therns?
I’m guessing light sabers, shape shifting, and force like powers are not enough.
How about they got a nuclear tenth ray device that is planted in Barsoom’s core that will rip apart the fabric of the universe. – Countdown device included of course.
Imagine a canabilistic orgy that will be reduced to a grisly Disney approved session of farts and burps.
Anyway you are missing the main point.
We will get to see plant men.
(looks like my previous comment was lost in limbo !)
MCR wrote: “The whole point that Burroughs made was they were not gods but regular humans without super powers or advanced technology-which Stanton promptly threw out the window with his shape shifting, teleporting Force-powered Therns.”
That point still stands in my opinion in Stanton’s movie. The Therns ARE frauds, their powers are clearly stated as technological in nature, not psychical or magical, and Carter caught Matai Shang in a case of blatant lie when the latter says Therns are immortal (contradiction said aloud by John Carter for those in the audience that didn’t notice it). If Matai Shang lied about that point, he could have lied about everything he just said. The Therns could very well really be those false pathetic prophets hidden in their gold caves, as depicted by ERB.
“Also does anyone think that Disney would allow the First Born and Issus as written to be filmed?”
The only thing I’m pretty sure they won’t put into the movie is the cannibalistic aspect, unless they feed on energy. I could very well picture Issus as the source of the Thern’s power, possibly of extraterrestrial origin. Who knows? That also means that if you found the Therns too powerful, the First Born and Issus could have even more powers! We also can imagine John Carter at the climax of Warlord of Mars, having united a whole army, composed of all the people of Barsoom, assailing the false goddess’ army. That would be quite a sight.
“In fact having someone else come in and reboot the series and ignore this film is the only way to not get a good-and possibly faithful in both plot and spirit-of John Carter of Mars but also to undue the damage Stanton inflicted.”
Delete the “not” there. It should read “In fact having someone else come in and reboot the series and ignore this film is the only way to get a good-and possibly faithful in both plot and spirit-of John Carter of Mars but also to undue the damage Stanton inflicted.”
“isn’t it possible that Stanton’s planned sequels will be much more in the spirit of the ERB books and therefore please ERB fanatics like yourself?”
Honestly, probably not. Stanton couldn’t stick to the novel-or the spirit of ERB-the first time around, what makes anyone think he would have done it for the sequels. Also he pretty much destroyed the plot of Gods of Mars with his decision to rewrite the Therns. The whole point that Burroughs made was they were not gods but regular humans without super powers or advanced technology-which Stanton promptly threw out the window with his shape shifting, teleporting Force-powered Therns. Also does anyone think that Disney would allow the First Born and Issus as written to be filmed? Now I know some have said that the film ends with Carter being more ERB-like but how long would that last before Stanton coughed up some new reason to make him more “damaged?”
So no Nick I don’t think Stanton would get it right the second time around. In fact having someone else come in and reboot the series and ignore this film is the only way to not get a good-and possibly faithful in both plot and spirit-of John Carter of Mars but also to undue the damage Stanton inflicted.
“But he had no problem putting out a John Carter dud that tarnished the legacy of Edgar Rice Burroughs’ John Carter of Mars!”
In your opinion (sorry couldn’t resist).
Isn’t it POSSIBLE that, now that Stanton has gotten Carter to Mars and introduced the Tharks, Woolah, Dejah, Sola and other characters, and by movie’s end has the Carter character near-resembling the character in the books…isn’t it possible that Stanton’s planned sequels will be much more in the spirit of the ERB books and therefore please ERB fanatics like yourself?
I’d argue strongly that Stanton’s sequels (if made) would be much better and much more entertaining than some future writer/director starting over.
” The last thing he’d want is to put out a Nemo dud that would tarnish the legacy of the 1st one”
But he had no problem putting out a John Carter dud that tarnished the legacy of Edgar Rice Burroughs’ John Carter of Mars! (Sorry couldn’t resist 😉 ).
I guess since its his own creation he’ll be more careful. After all Finding Nemo is a “classic” (an overrated, cliched “classic” but still) and A Princess of Mars was a poorly written piece of pulp that needed to be rewritten to become a “classic” (even though people from Ray Bradbury to George Lucas to Jane Goodall all acknowledge ERB’s influence and talent. But what do they know?)
Pascalhad, I too thought that the Chicken Little reference from Stanton’s tweet was in reference to John Carter. I don’t think Stanton’s given up at all on the JC sequels.
I’m guessing Stanton struggled with (or maybe never seriously attemtped) thinking up a sequel story for Nemo. Obviously, he was presented with a story he liked, and now he can work on the screenplay and directing. The last thing he’d want is to put out a Nemo dud that would tarnish the legacy of the 1st one.
Dotar Sojat wrote:
“There is no doubt that Stanton and Lasseter’s ability to lobby for JC2 goes up if Stanton does Nemo 2, ”
🙁
That’s all I’m going to say about that .
Well, the articles I read about Finding Nemo 2 made clear that Andrew Stanton traded Finding Nemo 2 for “another live-action movie”. There’s two things I hope: 1) that Finding Nemo 2 is a heartfelt project for him and not just a trade-off and 2) that this undisclosed live-action movie is indeed the John Carter sequel. Maybe his cryptic “Chicken Little” tweet following the announcement meant that.
Nick….yes, I tend to agree with that. There is no doubt that Stanton and Lasseter’s ability to lobby for JC2 goes up if Stanton does Nemo 2, and that would put the decision making cycle such that, come March 2015, a) Stanton would be in post production on Nemo 2, b) Iger would be gone, c) the option would be coming due so Disney would have to announce they were doing a sequel, or let the option go back to ERB Inc.
When it was announced Stanton was going to direct Finding Nemo 2, I actually became MORE hopeful that Stanton will make John Carter sequels in the future.
Isn’t it possible that Lasseter has told his friend Stanton to take the high road and not complain about John Carter’s handling, work on Nemo 2…which is almost 100% guaranteed to be a HUGE smash…then re-visit making John Carter sequels in 3-4 years?
If Iger’s gone in a couple years, all the better, and all the more likely Lasseter could figure out a way to make it happen.
“You know, you try things creatively all the time, and while you want every one of them to be great, and you set out to do that, that’s not always going to end up being the case.”
Just one sentence that says it all. On imdb, John Carter has a 6.8 appreciation rating, in the range of Prince of Persia (6.6), Tron Legacy (6.9), Pirates 4 (6.6) or Cars 2 (6.4). Where are his comments about these movies being “not great”?
On the other hand, it’s true that this appreciation rating is far from the best a movie can achieve. It places it on par with other so-so movies like Star Wars episode 1 and 2, Matrix 2 and 3 and Indiana Jones 4. Let’s hope this appreciation rating will grow in time, we’ll see.
One final comment, I never saw a journalist asking for a Tron or Prince of Persia attraction. Either that was a deliberately provocative question, or the reflect of a particular interest people might express about the movie. No way to be sure of that!
The original Lasseter/Iger article about the alleged fued – http://www.disunplugged.com/2012/08/10/rumor-mill-big-spirited-change-edition/ – indicates that there would be several reasons for asking Iger to step aside early next year, a John Carter sequel being just one such reason. So, if it is more widely believed that Iger’s early departure would be in the interests of a wider swath of Disney, the charges of Lasseter “just doing it to please a friend” wouldn’t stick quite so well. It doesn’t really bother me as much why things get done, as long as the movie turns out to be good and to justify its expense, which a John Carter sequel has a greater chance of doing than the original film.
Since I apparently love f-ing people…
I don’t read Iger’s comment as a diss on the movie. He admits sometimes these things fail. If the reporter had asked him about a Mars Needs Moms ride or a Prince of Persia ride it might have been the same response. Now I’m not defending him-he’s done more to damage Disney than even Michael Eisner did running the studio-but I don’t see that this was a diss to the film.
As for the suggestion of ” a Marvel-type structure under which ERB Inc. obtains independent financing, presumably from Chinese and Russian co-producers, leaving Disney with the requirement to only finance the marketing cost and to handle the distribution, as they do with Marvel” that might work but there would still be hiccups. As you pointed out they’ve never done this before and that can cause issues but also the reason Marvel moved into making films was to maintain control over their characters and attempt to do them right after a string of mediocre films. The question-and this is a criticism-is can ERB Inc do that? As shown by Tarzan and yes John Carter they haven’t done much to protect these characters when it comes to feature films or television. In order to do this they would have to be more hands on and I don’t see that happening if their past history is an indication.
Also would Lassiter risk putting his neck on the line for a sequel? He might just to maintain his friendship with Stanton but it would make end up just as some have said about Disney before-they’re just allowing this to keep someone happy. A film should be made for other reasons than just to keep John and Andrew’s friendship alive.
At this point I would say that the best way to go is the reboot method because waiting for someone to just give the money is not going to happen. The reason Marvel was able to do it was because they scored a hit with Iron Man and became a viable player.
That’s my take on it. I’ll return to being bantha fodder.
Agreed. It’s disappointing, but all signs indicate that the top brass at Disney is over the franchise. Hopefully the rights can be liberated soon to get things moving somewhere else. From the reports on Jim Morris’ presentation, it sounds like the production team at least has the will to continue, so I say Disney should set them free to test the waters.